Before I begin you must know that I do not mean any disrespect to any woman who are out there working in a field that is saturated by men. I too agree that women can do anything a man can and that there should be more female programmers. The following is not geared only towards phpwomen.org but at others as well. Ok time to start my rant.

When it comes to sexism and racism why must everything be segregated? Women have been programming for years, in fact I know a few (yes i know i used the few word and not many). We now need a site geared only towards women who are programming PHP? If you want to be equal to men, why not join them rather than segregate yourself from them.

Running into this site made me think of a conversation I had a long time ago about Black Entertainment Television (BET). Granted it did have it’s time and place, back when the arrogant white folk would not let a black man be in movies or on TV. Today however is it just as common to see a black person on TV as it is a white person so what is the need for a tv network like this, or an awards ceremony for this? What do you think the response would be if some white guy started White Entertainment Television (WET). Oh all the sudden we would be racist etc. Recently my roommate stumbled across a forum post where someone called a black person articulate and they were tagged as a racist. The explanation given was that because the black person was called articulate it implied that black people are stupid. This thread made me wonder where things are going, what can you call someone without being racist?

Back to women programmers. I understand the need to unite with each other and improve the female presence in the php community, I just do not understand why you feel the need to segregate yourself from the guys. I see what you are doing trying to "unite" the women together to form a group, but why not unite with the guys rather than separating the two?

As I said before this is not meant to be directed solely at phpwomen.org but rather at today’s society. Forget about race, gender, etc and unite as a whole.

Development, Entertainment, Internet, News, PHP, Rants, Websites.

15 Comments

NJ

02/15/08
08:23 PM

I realize that it’s been a few months since you wrote this but I just came across this article and wanted to explain this to you from a female programmer’s perspective.

I’m a C++ programmer and although I like my job, I am yet to encounter a female programmer at a job or even a job interview. When you’re in that kind of situation, it makes it very difficult to be entirely comfortable and to feel like you fit in, and to be honest, it can be quite intimidating. In addition, when I look up programming problems on the internet, the boards are filled with men who discuss everything in a very “manly” matter and they always automatically assume that all other posters are men. You can notice this from the language, i.e. thanks man, good job dude, etc. Sometimes they even get off topic and make comments about “chicks”.

Maybe this shouldn’t be a big deal but females are more sensitive after all and it somehow just bothers me. Plus it’s just another reminder that I’m “alone” in this industry. Having a board where you can discuss your technical issues, knowing that it’s primarily other women answering your questions is kind of nice and a lot less intimidating. At first, i thought it sounded a bit strange but now that I think of it, I would love to have a C++ for women site.

Hope this clarifies it a bit for you…

Joseph Crawford

12/02/07
02:19 AM

@CK:
Could I ask you to elaborate on why the site was not for you? I am just a bit curious.

CK

12/02/07
02:15 AM

I have been a PHP developer for 8 years and a female for almost 30. I refuse to segregate myself as a female in the world of programmers. I joined that site to see what it was about but it’s just not for me.

Joseph Crawford

11/21/07
02:54 PM

@Elizabeth,

wow you wrote a book, don’t get me started on all the issues women have. There are just too many to discuss lol. I am kidding of course

I see the point but if you are not going to segregate why call the community phpwomen. If men can join that defeats the naming of the site.

I am the same Joseph Crawford from OINK-PUG (surprised you remember me) but I do not post on there often anymore. I am not local to the UG so you wont see me at meetings (good thing for me I guess lol)

Elizabeth Naramore

11/21/07
02:34 PM

Hey, is this the same Joseph Crawford from OINK-PUG? If so, remind me to have a little chat with you at the next meeting

Haha, just kidding of course. I do understand your thoughts, and unfortunately I don’t think you’re the only one who thinks that.

The way I see it, though, as any demographic, women have certain issues, thoughts, feelings, and experiences that are unique to them. Just as there may be commonalities between African-American programmers, programmers in Iowa, or programmers over 50. There are unique topics of discussion that only those in the demographic would understand. Think about it - if we had instead started a support group for programmers over 50, would this be an issue with anyone? Would younger programmers see this as older programmers segregating themselves from the rest of the them? Would they think all the senior programmers did was to bash all the younger ones? No, of course not. That would be silly. But you can certainly see the benefits that those in the group could enjoy - surely there are topics and issues that those programmers over 50 would uniquely experience. Thoughts about old programming languages, the difficulties in finding employment, what to do about retirement, even what it’s like to be a grandparent. Certainly these topics are all things that those unique to the demographic can share amongst themselves.

Likewise, we started OINK-PUG as a local users group because there are issues and topics that we here in the Greater Cincinnati area can uniquely share. But we certainly aren’t trying to segregate ourselves from the rest of the world. Anyone is welcome to join, and many times the topics of discussion are not limited to happenings in just our area.

I’d venture to say that the PHPWomen group is very similar to my previous 2 examples. Of course we have issues and discussions that mostly women can relate to. But we also have open topics that benefit all programmers, which is why we do openly encourage anyone who wants to, to join in. In fact, we’ve had men who like coming to our site because they feel like they are less likely to be flamed for asking a stupid question.